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Post by Jedi Knight Daniel on Aug 31, 2006 23:00:09 GMT -5
I don't know if anyone has ever thought of this but its an interesting thought. The prophacy that was written stated that Anakin was the chosen one to bring balance to the force and destroy the sith.
Although I do not agree with him killing his fellow Jedi in cold blood, It was necassary to bring the force in balance and ultimatley destroy the sith. There were hundreds of thousands of Jedi and only 2 sith. By the end of episode III there were 2 Jedi (yoda and obi-wan) and 2 sith (Sidius and Vader). The force is in balance. Now that that is achieved the sith would eventually be destroyed.
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Xanatos
Jedi
Corrupted Jedi
You don't know the power of Dark Side...
Posts: 99
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Post by Xanatos on Sept 1, 2006 0:23:20 GMT -5
No, quantity of Jedi in time of Galactic Republic was around several thousands, not hundreds.
It wasn't nessesary. Jedi are guardians of peace. After elimination of Jedi Order, Galaxy became much worse place, than it was before.
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Post by Jedi Knight Daniel on Sept 1, 2006 14:08:38 GMT -5
I understand that and would never have took the path Anakin had taken but in the end, the Jedi prevailed anyway correct?
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Post by Jedi Knight Daniel on Sept 1, 2006 14:09:54 GMT -5
My mistake on the number. During the sith wars I'm sure my number may have been more accurate.
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Post by His death my life on Sept 1, 2006 22:35:34 GMT -5
I don't know if anyone has ever thought of this but its an interesting thought. The prophacy that was written stated that Anakin was the chosen one to bring balance to the force and destroy the sith. Although I do not agree with him killing his fellow Jedi in cold blood, It was necassary to bring the force in balance and ultimatley destroy the sith. There were hundreds of thousands of Jedi and only 2 sith. By the end of episode III there were 2 Jedi (yoda and obi-wan) and 2 sith (Sidius and Vader). The force is in balance. Now that that is achieved the sith would eventually be destroyed. good point, understand what ur saying, i wonder if thats what they were aiming for. Plus it was him who personally killed the last sith( i wouldnt consider him a sith once he chose to throw sidiuos over.) good find!
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Post by Leia Vader on Sept 23, 2006 13:05:06 GMT -5
You do have a point Daniel. I believe that the point you've brought up is what Yoda was reffering to during ROTS when he said that the prophecy might have been misread.
Balance is having equal opposites and yet the Jedi believed, at least initially, that that meant the destruction of the Sith but it is not true. I believe that Anakin did bring balance so that there were 2 Jedi and 2 Sith.
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Post by Grand Jedi Master Rik Jinn on Sept 23, 2006 13:15:28 GMT -5
I do not agree with this, There were more Jedi at the time the Sith got destroyed and there were even Imperial Jedi later on, <kinda like Dark Jedi but working for the Empire> and Anakin was not the true son of sun I think he was created by a man called Darth Plaguis <or Pluieguis or something, Sidious's Master> and was ment to be found by the Jedi to make the Sith be strong again. It was all ment to be that way cause Plaguis the wise was so wise he could even create life. And anakin didn't have a true Father..... Who agrees ? <I think the chosen one came later even after the Legancy Era>
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AV™ The Unforgiving
Jedi Master
}}Force Power{17413}
"Loyalty above all laws, Death before dishonor."
Posts: 1,233
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Post by AV™ The Unforgiving on Sept 25, 2006 1:52:17 GMT -5
There is no question about it. Anakin Skywalker/ Darth Vader is the chosen one. He did bring balance to the force either way you look at it. He was responsible for ending the last Sith Lord in the galaxy which balanced the force in favor of the light. However there is constant movement in the force so i did not last. As it never truley will for the force lives on forever.
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Post by Genome4824 on Oct 17, 2006 15:51:48 GMT -5
No Question Anakin is the Chosen One. It came from Lucas it is the highest level of canon.
As for balance. Balance is NO SITH, because the Sith feed the Dark Side and allow it to grow which brings the unbalance. There is always the dark side of the force, The Sith add to it though. Like how Palpatine was able to cloud the Jedi's judgement and taint the Force between II and III
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Xanatos
Jedi
Corrupted Jedi
You don't know the power of Dark Side...
Posts: 99
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Post by Xanatos on Oct 21, 2006 23:59:03 GMT -5
I never truly understood, what Jedi meant when they were saying, that Anakin will restore balance of the Force. If the balance is a ratio of Light side users to Dark side users, than Jedi destroyed balance by killing the Sith. And Anakin restored balance by killing almost all Jedi except hundred(only several of them survived Jedi Purge). And if balance is stability in galaxy, than Anakin restored it by killing bosses of Trade Federation and by helping Palpatine to create Empire.
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Darth Revan
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May The Dark Side Overwhelm You
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Post by Darth Revan on Oct 25, 2006 15:49:48 GMT -5
....I am confused
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Xanatos
Jedi
Corrupted Jedi
You don't know the power of Dark Side...
Posts: 99
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Post by Xanatos on Oct 27, 2006 23:20:15 GMT -5
Why you are confused?
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Cobalt60
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may the LAG be with you.
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Post by Cobalt60 on Oct 28, 2006 13:13:01 GMT -5
think of it as more of an "enviromentalist" ....thing.
- the force is like "Nature".
- the Sith are like corporations/industry: they TAKE from the force, without giving anything back. from their POV, the force exists to serve THEM. (they do not replant forests after they "clear cut". so to speak. they will use it and use it and use it until its gone. they do NOT live "in balance" with nature) - the Jedi are like american indians: they lived in balance with nature for Thousands of years. they were the Caretakers of the Living force, for generations. they took from the force, only what they needed. they were conscious of the "will of the force", and they tended it, and they kept it strong. they lived in perfect harmony with Nature (so to speak).
and this was NOT dependant on "how many" indians walked the forests, at any time in history, btw. this was dependant on HOW they lived (not "how many"). population (numbers) had nothing to do with it; it was the WAY they lived, which brought Balance.
---> ((in star wars, balance came from the fact that the Jedi existed to act out the will of the living force; they existed as symbiotes with a "living" force; the Jedi listened to the Will of this Living Force, and they acted it out in the real world))
but then something happened: the Will of the People took over, and usurped the Will of the Force.
at the time of the Phantom Menace, the Jedi are NO LONGER acting on the will of the force.
they are enacting the will of the galactic senate (which is corrupt).
---> ((THIS is where the imbalance comes from))
obiwan : "we will do EXACTLY as the council has instructed" (note: the jedi do not listen to their own instincts anymore (the will of the force); they only listen to the will of the Senate, which is corrupt)
"Imbalance" came from the fact that the Jedi were taking orders from the "galactic senate", which was under the DIRECT control of the Sith.
the Jedi were NO LONGER acting on the will of the Living Force.
they were "using" the force, to enact the Will of the People (which was corrupted by the Sith).
--> by the time of ROTS, the Jedi were fighting a war for security, driven only by the people's FEAR. (kinda like George Bush)
this was contrary to the will of the force.
THIS is what caused the imbalance.
and by the time the Jedi finally "woke up" and realised it, by the time Windu finally decided to openly defy the galactic senate in ROTS.. it was too late. they were all destroyed except yoda and obiwan.
but notice: even THAT didn't restore "balance".
"Balance" had nothing to do with numbers, or population, of Jedi vs. Sith.
it had everything to do with HOW they each used the force.
(ie: do they use it to enact the will of the Living Force? (balance) ..or do they use it to enact the will of the People, driven by Fear? (imbalance))
-==========-
in the end: the imbalance was caused by the fact, that the Will of the People.. was identical to the Will of the Sith.
(and the Jedi were bound by the Will of the People; they were taking orders from the galactic senate)
Balance was restored when (A) the dictator was removed from power; therefore his influence on the "will of the people" had ended. and (B) when the "Jedi" were free again, to listen to the will of the force*
*ie: Luke Skywalker had NO obligation, to use the Force, to enact the will of the galactic senate. he was taught to "feel the force", and "act on instinct". he let the force guide his actions. ---> (the return of the jedi)
-===================- -===================-
and the "Chosen One", was spawned BY the force, to kill/destroy/neutralize EVERy "force user" who was NOT listening to the will of the force.
Jedi AND Sith, alike.
at the time of ROTS, the Jedi are bound by the Will of the Senate (which just happens to be identical to the will of the Sith)
so as far as the "living force" is concerned... they're ALL acting out the "will of the sith"
Jedi AND sith, alike.
---> they ALL needed to be destroyed, in order to restore "balance"
(every single force-user who is even alive at the time of ROTS, needed to be destroyed. including anakin)
in the end, Luke is the only one left. and like I said, he was taught to "let go his conscious self" and "act on instinct"
(he has been taught to heed the will of the living force, even over his OWN will)
he does not use the force to the enact the will of the senate, or anyone else. he uses the force to enact the will of the force. (balance).
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Cobalt60
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may the LAG be with you.
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Post by Cobalt60 on Oct 28, 2006 13:41:04 GMT -5
just to expand on this a bit:
the thing that the Sith were doing that was the equivalent of "clear cutting" the living force:
the Sith were using the force to prolong/create "life". THIS was their goal. (and THIS was what caused the force to "react" and spawn the chosen one to restore balance)
---> in its natural state, the force is "an enery field CREATED BY all living things".
it is created BY life. NOT vice versa.
the Sith had found a way to use the Force "in reverse" (so to speak).
they drew energy FROM the force , and used it to create/prolong LIFE; the force is supposed to derive its energy FROM life.
---> what they were doing, was DRAINING the living force. they were using the force "in reverse"
(thats why the "will of the Sith" had to be destroyed; the Sith were causing the imbalance; and since the Jedi were (indirectly) acting out the will of the sith.. ..they had to be destroyed too)
-============-
so, Balance was (also) restored, when the force went back to being "an energy field created BY life" .. .. instead of "an energy field used to create life".
(ie: when the Sith were destroyed. plain and simple. the Sith were like a cancer on the force. the destruction of the Sith brought the force back into balance, because of the way they were using it) ((not because of their numbers/population vs. that of the jedi))
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Cobalt60
Jedi Master
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may the LAG be with you.
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Post by Cobalt60 on Oct 30, 2006 10:05:47 GMT -5
P.s: this all leads to another point, which I thought I would (also) add to this thread.. it has to do with "Morality"
ie: (who/what guides our actions).
we know from ROTS that "the Sith think only about themselves" and "the Jedi are only concerned with helping others"
this basically illustrates two classic positions on "morality".
(a third will follow)*
--> a Sith would argue that "morality" is defined by the needs of the individual, and that any two people might have two different sets of "morals"; that anything they might choose to do, or feel comfortable doing, is morally justified, as per their own "individual" moral code.
but the TRUTH is, morality belongs to society; NOT the individual. it is absolutely incorrect to say that two people, living in the same society, could be operating under differing "moral codes"; individuals do NOT have "morals"; the moral code belongs to the society, not the individual.
(( ie: remember when you were young? how the stories read to you as a child often stated explicity at the end ".. and the moral of this story is.."? humans are storytelling people. the stories that we tell our children define our society and our history. and the morals that they impart, belong to the entire group of people who practice them; they belong to the society who TELLS the story; not to the individual who hears it. if that makes any sense))
IF different moral codes belonged to each individual, then an indivudual could argue, that murder is morally justified.. to him (for example). and then, just go around murdering people.
but the TRUTH is, some actions that we choose to commit are "immoral", and we know it. just because different people might have different scruples, and just because they each might feel comfortable about acting in different ways.. doesn't mean they aren't doing things that are "immoral"
--> and the code which determines which actions are "immoral" , belongs to society.
-==========-
problem: different societies can have different moral codes, and worse, each society's moral code might change over time.
there is NO universal "standard" for good and evil.
there was a time when our OWN society would sacrifice virgins to make the crops grow. we thought it was for the "Good" of all. but now, the same society would define that same action as "Evil".
it turns out, (any) society's sense of "Good" is (always) defined by "the common good"; anything contrary to the common good is considered "EVIL".
and these definitions WILL change, through the ages.
there is no universal standard for determining Good and Evil; Dark and Light; right and wrong, as defined by ANY given culture.
So whats a Jedi to do?
by virtue of their political position (taking orders from the galactic senate), the Jedi Council are bound by law to act out the Will of the People (which changes through the ages). ---> they think only about the Common Good.
meanwhile the Sith have been acting out the Will of the Individual; ---> they think only about themselves.
the only OTHER source of "morality"... is to get it from a "higher power" (so to speak).
---> enter the FORCE (as religion)
* the third option is to listen to the "will of the force", and take your "moral code" from a higher power, without question.
some might call it.. faith
(to, quite literally, "let the force guide your actions".... in the same way, that a christian might let the "bible" guide his actions. for example)
-=========-
point: balance was restored when the Jedi began acting out the "Will of the Force", instead of the 'will of the people'
when the Jedi "returned" to treating the Force as religion.
(( OR: to revisit the enviromentalist analogy: when they stopped acting on the needs of society, and started listening to the needs of "the force", itself))
((ie: "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.. or the one" but the needs of the enviroment outweigh everything. hehe))
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