Balance to the force

[Buggyvirus1]

So I was thinking about ROTJ and TPM. In TPM it is said that Anakin will bring balance to the force...Or so Qui Gon thought. Then we get all the way to ROTJ and find Vader.

Does he ever bring balance?

I have thought long and hard about this question. Vader, with love for his son, destroys the emperor by throwing him down a shaft. That ending the empire and allowing the republic to rebuild itself.
However, I don't see that as balance. He destroyed evil wich flops the balance the the light side of the force. So once again it is out of balance.

[Cobalt60]

think of it as sort of an "enviromentalist" .... thing.

- the force is like "Nature".

- the Sith are like corporations/industry:
they TAKE from the force, without giving anything back.
from their Point of view, the force exists to serve THEM (not vice versa).
(they do not replant forests after they "clear cut". so to speak.
they will use it and use it and use it until its gone. they do NOT live "in balance" with nature the force)

- the Jedi are like american indians:
they lived in balance with nature for Thousands of years.
they were the Caretakers of the Living force, for generations.
they took from the force, only what they needed.
they were aware of the "will of the Living Force", and they tended it, and they kept it strong.
they lived in perfect harmony with Nature the force (so to speak).

and this was NOT dependant on "how many" american indians walked the forests, at any time in history, btw.

this was dependant on HOW THEY LIVED (not "how many").

population (numbers) had little to do with it; it was the WAY they interacted with Nature, which brought Balance.

---> ((in star wars, balance came from the fact that the Jedi existed, for thousands of years, to act out the will of the living force; they existed as symbiotes with the living force (Qui Gon's words). the Jedi listened to the "Will" of the Living Force, and they acted out the will of the force in the real world))





but then something happened: the Will of the People took over,
and usurped the Will of the Force. THIS caused imbalance.

at the time of the Phantom Menace, the Jedi are NO LONGER acting on the will of the force.

they are enacting the will of the galactic senate (which is corrupt).

---> ((THIS is where the imbalance comes from))

obiwan : "we will do EXACTLY as the council has instructed"
(note: the jedi do not even listen to their own instincts anymore (which are attuned to the will of the force);
they only listen to the will of the Senate, which is corrupt)




"Imbalance" came from the fact that the Jedi were taking orders from the "galactic senate",
which was under the DIRECT control of the Sith.

the Jedi were NO LONGER acting on the will of the Living Force.
instead they were "using the force", to enact the Will of the People (which was corrupted by the Sith and driven by Fear).

--> by the time of ROTS, the Jedi were fighting a war for security,
driven only by FEAR.
(sound familiar?)

this was contrary to the will of the force ---> "imbalance"





and by the time the Jedi finally "woke up" and realised this,
(ie: by the time Windu finally decided to openly defy the galactic senate in ROTS and attack sidious..)
it was too late.
they were all destroyed except yoda and obiwan.

but notice: even THAT didn't restore "balance".

"Balance" had nothing to do with numbers, or population, of Jedi vs. Sith.

it had everything to do with HOW they each used the force.

(ie: do they use it to enact the will of the Living Force in th e real world? (balance)
..or do they use it to enact the will of the People, driven by Fear? (imbalance))


-==========-


in the end: the imbalance was caused by the fact, that the Will of the People..
was identical to the Will of the Sith.

(and the Jedi were bound by law, to enact the Will of the People;
they were taking orders from the galactic senate;
they no longer acted on the Will of the Force)




and Balance was restored when

(A) the dictator was removed from power;
therefore his influence on the "will of the people" had ended. and
(B) when the "Jedi" were free again, to listen to the will of the force*;
no longer bound by law to enact the will of the senate

*ie: Luke Skywalker had NO obligation, to use the Force, to enact the will of the galactic senate.
he was taught to "feel the force", and "act on instinct".
he let the force guide his actions. NOT vice versa.
---> (this was the true "return of the jedi")

-===================-
-===================-

and I think the "Chosen One", was spawned BY the force itself,
to kill/destroy/neutralize EVERy "force user" in existence,
who was NOT listening to the will of the force.

Jedi AND Sith, alike. everybody had to die.

and like I said, at the time of ROTS, the Jedi are bound by the Will of the Senate
(which just happens to be identical to the will of the Sith)

so as far as the "living force" is concerned... they're ALL acting out the "will of the sith"
every force user alive was "doing it wrong" and the ALL had to be wiped out.

Jedi AND sith, alike.

---> they ALL needed to be destroyed, in order to restore "balance"

(including anakin)





in the end, Luke is the only one left. and he was given a very unorthodox training.
like I said, he was explicitly taught to "let go his conscious self" and "act on instinct"
(meaning: he has been taught to heed the will of the living force, even over his OWN will)

he does not use the force to the enact the will of the galactic senate,
or anyone else for that matter.

he uses the force to enact the will of the force.

(balance).


-=======================-
-========================-

- the Sith are like corporations/industry:
they TAKE from the force, without giving anything back.
from their POV, the force exists only to serve THEM.
(they do not replant forests after they "clear cut". so to speak.
they will use it and use it and use it until its gone. they do not live "in balance" with nature)

just to expand on this a bit:

the one thing that the Sith were doing,
which was the equivalent of "clear cutting" the living force:

the Sith were using the force to prolong/create "life".

THIS was their stated goal.

(and THIS was what caused the force to "react",
and spawn the chosen one, to restore balance)



meaning ---> in its natural (balanced) state,
the force is "an enery field CREATED BY all living things".

NOT vice versa.

but the Sith had found a way to use the Force "in reverse" (so to speak).

they drew energy FROM the force , and used it to create/prolong LIFE ITSELF

---> what they were doing, was DRAINING the living force. they were using the force "in reverse"

for all intents and purposes, they had reversed the laws of entropy.

(thats why the "will of the Sith" had to be destroyed and wiped out completely, and the jedi removed from their obligation to act out the will of the senate; the Sith were causing the imbalance by using the force in reverse, and since the Jedi were (indirectly) acting out the will of the sith, because the sith controlled the senate)


-============-


so, Balance was (also) restored,
when the force went back to being "an energy field created BY life" ..
.. instead of the other way around (an energy field used by the sith to "create" life).

ie: balance was restored when the Sith were destroyed. plain and simple.
the Sith were like a cancer on the force.
and the destruction of the Sith brought the force back into balance,
because the way they were using the force was lost forever.
((not because of their numbers / population vs. that of the jedi))

[Cobalt60]

p.s:

this all leads to another point, which I thought I would (also) add to this thread..
(why not right? it can't get much longer)
..it has to do with "Morality".
and where does our concept of "good" and "evil" come from.



we know from ROTS that "the Sith think only about themselves" and "the Jedi are only concerned with helping others"

in a nutshell, this basically illustrates two classic positions on "morality":
(I'll get to the other one in a minute)*

--> a Sith would argue that "morality" is defined by the needs of the individual, and that any two people, might have two different sets of "morals"; that anything they might choose to do, or feel comfortable doing, is morally justified, as per their own "individual" moral code.

but the TRUTH is, morality belongs to society; NOT the individual.

it is absolutely incorrect to say that two people, living in the same society, could be operating under differing "morals"; the moral code belongs to the society, not the individual.

(( ie: remember when you were young? how the stories read to you as a child often stated explicity at the end ".. and the moral of this story is"? humans are storytelling people. the stories that we tell our children define our society and our history. and the morals that they impart, belong to the entire group of people who practice them; they belong to the society who TELLS the story; not to the individual who hears it. if that makes any sense))

IF different moral codes belonged to each individual, then an indivudual could argue, that murder is morally justified.. to him (for example). and then, just go around murdering people.

but the TRUTH is, some actions that we choose to commit are "immoral", and we know it. just because different people might have different scruples, and just because they each might feel comfortable about acting in different ways.. doesn't mean they aren't doing things that are "immoral"

--> and the code which determines this , belongs to society.

-==========-

problem: different societies can have different moral codes, and worse,
each society's moral code might change over time.

there is NO universal "standard" for good and evil.

there was a time when our OWN society would sacrifice virgins to make the crops grow.
we thought it was for the "Good" of all. but now, we would define that same action as "Evil".

it turns out,
(any) society's sense of "Good" is (always) defined by "the common good";
anything contrary to the common good is considered "EVIL".

and these definitions WILL change, through the ages.

there is no universal standard for determining Good and Evil; Dark and Light;
right and wrong, as defined by ANY given culture.






So whats a Jedi to do?






by virtue of their political position (taking orders from the galactic senate),
the Jedi Council have been acting out the Will of the People
(which changes through the ages).

they think only about the Common Good (which changes over time).

meanwhile the Sith have been acting out the Will of the Individual;
they think only about themselves.




the only OTHER source of "morality" ... is to get it from a "higher power" (so to speak).

---> enter the FORCE (as religion)

* the third option, is to listen to the "will of the force", and take your "moral code" from a higher power, without question.

some might call it.. faith

(to, literally, "let the force guide your actions"....
in the same way, that a christian might let the "bible" guide his actions.
for example.)

-=========-

point: balance was restored when the Jedi began acting out the "Will of the Force",
instead of the 'will of the people'....

.... when the Jedi "returned" to treating the Force as religion.
and followed it blindly.

[jerrekdromas]

If you think of it in a traditional sence he (Anakin) did bring balance to the force. Evil (Sith) was defeated by good (Jedi). I'm sure that Master Yoda wasn't thinking "Well if good and evil have equal power then everything will work out in the end." What would be the the point.

[Lord Voldemort]

Well, Anakin DID bring balance to the Force.
When he through Emperor down to the reactor of the Death Star, Vader was dead, and Anakin was alive one again.
So the prophecy is true.......from a certain point of view.

[JADE Light (Skywalker)]

WOWOWOW
You guys had some amazing answers!!!

Ill just add one thing.........
The writer
Lucas
Says that yes he did.
Look further... deeper... find out how long Vader has waited to kill sidious.
According to Lucas it was as long as it took to wait for his son to come of age so he could ask his help... YES Vader knew of him.

Think about it.
Wouldnt you go to tatooine and check with the stepkids?

Anyway Lucas says Vader knows..and waits.
He asks Padme in ep3 to realise "I can destroy him padme!! And we can rule together....."

then he loses limbs..... jedi taught that loss of limbs was loss of power.. Lucas said Vader lost faith in his ability to kill sidious though he still could have.. so that is what made him a sad character to Lucas.

THEN he gets his son... tests him to the LIMIT... and then when he sees he is STRONG shares his secret...... Luke you can destroy the emperor..... come with me!!!!

But.... Vader is misunderstood either as anakin or vader.
He is a hard one to follow unless you have been watching a studying why he does things and researching since you were Six years old like me
ROFL

Just try to find out what the writer says and that will
lead you to all the why questions you have.

YES Anakin was always the chosen one
YES he brought balance.
Lucas has confirmed these things.
I dont see why anyone can disagree with the writer himself.
So yeah........ Vader brought balance just as the prophecy said he would.

Just because 3 darkness clouded Jedi in a ship talk about how they are blinded and dont even know anymore if Anakin is the chosen one does not mean that Lucas wants you to doubt it....... if anything that scene was realllllllllly sad. Even Yoda was clouded in the mind with darkness.. it was like a thick fog.

Read ROTJ book..........
"Luke what happened to your father was my fault.
the Galaxy paid a high price for my pride." _obiwans ghost.

That quote explains it all doesn't it?


Jade

[speiky]

Long Story short. The prophecy was true. It was just delayed balance